tiff so

Please state your name, age, and your creative occupation. 

Tiffany So. 26, and I'm a writer and a director.

How would you describe your mental health at the moment?

You're catching me in a moment where I've just finished a job, which I think is my most vulnerable state. When I'm not working, I am so stressed about finding a job, even though I really have not had any true lull in work. And maybe that's why I'm also really uncomfortable in quiet. I love to be active, and I love to be busy, and I think it's really hard for me to rest. 

And so mentally, I'm feeling very anxious and uncertain, and I have a lot of doubt about the future. I feel hopeful, still, and I think I feel very torn between wanting to deal with this anxious thing and then wanting to get another job. I'll have a small period where I'm not working, and suddenly I'm working, and I totally should have made a point to rest when I had the time, but I was so worried that I wouldn't have this thing that I have now that I ruined it. 

Why are you a creative or a writer?

I think part of it is that I am left handed, and I feel that every time anyone finds out that I'm left handed from a young age, they're like, you must be creative.

A true answer is that I think that I have always been creative. I write and I direct, but I feel really drawn to pursuing art in general. I love to draw and paint and play the piano (so badly), but I like to be around it,  and I love the rush of creating something that feels new or creating something that feels true and being able to have an image in your mind or a feeling in your mind and making it something physical. That's my favorite thing. I don't think I chose it, I think that it's something that is instinctual. And I'm also not good at a lot of other things. It was chosen for me that I had zero passion for anything else that felt like concrete. Not that great in school. Honestly, I was good enough, but I wasn't excellent at anything except for creative writing. I do feel that I possessed something that gives me a little bit more of an arena to play in. 

What's your ultimate goal as a creative?

In terms of what I would like to do. I think that I am excited about telling stories that feel personal to me or that feel exciting to me. I feel really passionate about taking up space where people like me don't normally have space. I want to be around people to lift them up. I get really excited about the potential of not only being a writer and director, but also being a producer and getting my hands dirty and bringing different projects to life, whether it be my own or other people’s.  I also think a big goal for me is just the challenge of it. 

It's so funny that I chose a field where I'm constantly offering myself up to be judged or liked or disliked, when that's truly my greatest anxiety. It’s so hard for me to be in a situation where I'm constantly presenting the most vulnerable parts of myself. I have so much anxiety around it. But it's also so great that I am challenging myself with my career. I find it really difficult every single time, but I also find it really exciting. It’s a thrill to put myself in a position where I'm outside my comfort zone. So I want to be challenged more.

What do you want people to feel when they interact with your art?

I think I want people to feel seen and I want people to feel moved. I think that's why anyone goes to watch anything, to see some part of yourself in something else, and maybe to be surprised by that. 

Is there something that you've watched recently that made you feel that way?

When I watched “Drive My Car.”  It's so stunning and so moving. I think that there was something about that movie that made me feel surprised by the way that these characters were acting, but also I totally believed it. And it felt so real how they were moving through their grief. I was surprised by their coping mechanisms, but I also felt like I understood it. I'm interested in telling stories that feel both human and surprising. I want to come out of left field. And that goes back to finding what challenges me in my work.

When you're in a creative slump, what do you do to get out of it?

I really struggle with it. What feels really true to me is that being an artist is having confidence in yourself, like a sense of ego that you can do something that is kind of like a shot in the dark, and then so much low self esteem. And I think they exist always at the same time, where it's like I always feel like I am toggling between being so excellent and being so worthless. There are days where I think I am God’s gift. Then there are days where I’m certain I will never be able to articulate an idea ever again and I'm suddenly the least interesting person in the world. 

Obviously, that is when I feel the slum, and it's so hard to get out of it. I feel like it's impossible to convince yourself that you are capable until you do something. So I feel  when I am in a slump, I am just running at a wall until it breaks. I can't get through it.  I think that there's no easy way around it and that it's really painful and really demoralizing that the wall is not moving ever. I'm just forcing myself to sit at the table and try to do something with my mind. Writing is so hard. I mean, writing makes you feel like a crazy person. And my true panic is when I have an assignment and a deadline and I'm like, this could take me a day or this could take me years to get this to a place I feel is right.

If you weren't pursuing the arts. What would you do? 

Probably working outdoor education. I would have no phone and I would be living on an island. I think that whatever I end up doing, or however long this career is, I love working with kids. I find them to be the most exciting and creative beings. I also just love to play, like I love a really an honest hang. And so I would work in outdoor education with children and just be camping all the time, I think. I don't know, that's like my pipe dream because it's so opposite of what I do now. And I used to spend so much more time outside than I do now, which is odd. 

What has been the hardest thing that you've had to overcome while pursuing your creative career?

I am trying to separate my self-worth from my work or the success of whatever I do. I don't know that the standard that I have, I think, sometimes is really high. And I just simply cannot separate the two things. And so if I'm having a difficult time figuring something out or if I'm temporarily unemployed, I cannot find myself. And I've always been like that. I think I’ve always confused my successes with how I feel about myself. And it's so a part of the job to put your whole self into something. And it is so unnatural to put your whole self into a piece of writing and then be asked to remove your whole self from it once you're done. Because whether something gets made or not, whether it's well received or not, you know, there's no way to predict it. And that is so tough. Putting my whole self into my work is easy, but trying to take myself out of it is really hard. 

And it doesn't help that this job is very all consuming in that you work, of course, but that you technically could be working at all hours of the day. So I also have a really hard time having a break in the day and not feeling like shit because I'm not working. It's so hard. It's so hard. It's so hard. And I'm lazy. I'm so lazy. I genuinely don't like writing so much of the time. And I also have the desire and the capability to sleep until ten and then just watch TV until the sun is down. That feels like my most natural self. And so it's tough because that doesn't cut it.  But I often find that even the time that I do allot to writing is wasted anyway. Not wasted, but just feels like banging your head against a wall. And so sometimes I'll spend all day “writing”, and then by the end of the day, I've got nothing. And that's a different feeling because you're like, what? I could have fucked around all day. Instead, I just sat here miserable because I couldn't land an idea or something. That's tragic. 

You said something earlier that I really appreciated, where you said most of the time I don't even like writing and I feel the same way. And I've always wondered if that means I'm not meant to write things, because I don't enjoy this. 

Yeah, I don't like it. I think it's torture. But I've been in some really wonderful work environments and I am engaged because I like talking to people. With that kind of writing, where you're just like, in a room. That's fun. That is really fun. Sitting at my computer. No, not fun. Not good. It really takes everything in me to sit there. Like, fingers are on the keyboard. That's when I feel the worst about myself. I find writing to be so challenging and so miserable. 

And the feeling that I covet is when you write something and it's exactly what you imagined, like, you're able to really write the thing you wanted it to be and convey the feeling you wanted to too. And you're reading it and you're like, damn, I really wrote something beautifully. And there's that magic of knowing that it's not like you worked hard to write this thing that you think is great, it's like it came out of somewhere else entirely.

But the process of making that thing is not my favorite at all. It's so embarrassing. Writing is an embarrassing thing to do. Yeah. It's so much of being like, who do I think I am that I'm like putting pen to paper on this. And also, you yourself are seeing every bad version of a sentence that you write. I know that I'm very capable in this thing. And still, when I'm reading something, like a first draft of something, I want to throw up. And I'm so embarrassed that I would dare a pen to paper. No. There's nothing more excruciating than reading the first draft. Truly, it is so embarrassing. Who am I? Why do I think I should do this?

When do you feel the most true to yourself?

I feel the most true to myself when I'm outside, I really do feel it is such a gift to be outdoors and to feel small in a good way, in a way that doesn't make you feel belittled. That's when I feel the most like myself and also just a person of the world. And that I just, like, owe very little, and very little is owed to me. I think that I feel the most myself when I'm in a situation that has very little expectation of what I am to do here, because I'm so crushed under expectations.

When was the last time you cried? And are you comfortable sharing?

I cry all the time, so it's just every day. I think the last time I cried was the week that my current job was ending. And I convinced myself that I would never work again, which is dumb. It's a silly thing to cry over, but I cry over everything, I think it's okay. The thing that gets me every time is that it feels like you are constantly being pushed back to ground zero emotionally where it's like no amount of work and no amount of success will ever make me feel that I can do this. That feeling is universal to a lot of writers I know, at least. Like every day I'm convinced I can't write a good thing ever again.

I feel so much dread over what is uncertain. And there is so much that is uncertain. I've been so lucky in my career so far, with incredible jobs and amazing mentors. But in my bones I believe that 65% of success in this industry is luck. And so I fear that this luck is going to run out. I’ve already been so fortunate. And that's such a hard thing because you realize that of course hard work matters and of course talent matters, but also there is so much that is out of your control. So there are days where you're just like how do I work at this? I’m at a casino putting quarters in, being like, dear God, please let this be a job. 

What is your advice when you find yourself struggling? 

I think I have two things. One is to do something creative that is not something that I get paid to do. There are no expectations for me to be good at it. It's a really great feeling. Like, I started painting recently, and it's such a comforting feeling to just do something that you're like, who gives a shit if it looks good or bad? Just me. I’m trying to just work out a skill. And so I love that as a way to make me feel better. And then I just consume everything. I'll watch things that I feel inspired by and I'll listen to music that moves me, but I'll also just eat everything too. I just think that there is something about being really gluttonous and just absorbing it all that totally overwhelms me, but then gives me a little bit of comfort and sense of self.

What is your greatest fear in life?

Oh, my gosh. My greatest fear in life is that the people I love will all die. More specifically, I'm afraid that I will not have said everything that I want to say or made people feel everything that I want them to feel before they’re gone. Because I honestly constantly walk away from situations being like, I wish that I said this, or I wish I made them feel this way, and that I expressed how grateful or how much I care. And so that's something that I think about in the dead of night when I can’t sleep.

What's the heartbreak that changed you as an artist?

As I was getting into the industry, I had an early success while I was still in college. It was this show, this animated musical pilot that was like a pure passion project. A love of mine and Saba (*Tiff’s partner), the first thing we've ever made together. I don't know if it stands the test of time, but when I think about it, I have butterflies. Because I was like, that felt so pure. I knew nothing about the industry, truly. I was like, what if we just made this thing? And the process was incredible. The people, the animators, everything. And our only goal was to turn it into the New York Television Festival by June 30, which was their deadline. And that was the only place we submitted to. And we got in, and then we went to New York. And then we won an award for a development deal from BentoBox. And I was 19, and I thought that I was finished. Like I had made it.

And I remember talking to Saba being like, should I drop out of school? He was like, I don't know that you should drop out of school. And I was like, I don't know. Seems like we're going somewhere. Yeah, maybe I should drop out of school. And he's like, please don't drop out of school. And I had no idea what a development deal meant. None of us did. We just went back to the hotel and Googled it. And you will find no answer of what a development deal is. When you Google it online, it's so vague. But essentially they gave us a feeling that they're going to make the show. And they were like, once we get back in town, we're going to pair you guys with a showrunner. It's going to be great, and we're so excited to make this show. And I believed it. But when I got back to LA, there was a change up, like a restructuring at the company. And then on our end, it went from infrequent emails to radio silence.

And I was so green, like, at the very beginning, still zero understanding of the industry that I did not understand that it was never going to happen. We just held on to hope for like a year. And so it was like the slowest break ever. By the time that it reached its end, which was not even a concrete thing, we were exhausted. And it was like such a wake up call. Now I really do have my guard up about any kind of success or promise. I'm like, I'll believe it when I see it. But before then, anything can happen. Those are such important lessons.

What is your most complex relationship in your life?

Saba. I think that’s it. A 100%. Because we were best friends and then we became writing partners and then we started dating and we really said, let's commit to it all. It's the most beautiful relationship that I have. It's like truly the one thing that blows my mind. And that is the thing that I hold on to a lot of the time where I'm like, yes, this thing was such a jackpot. And how fucking lucky am I to get to do this with this person? And not even just creatively, not even just romantically or whatever, but all of it that we get to cross paths in this way that's so intense and uplifting, it is, like, truly the greatest blessing to walk hand in hand and to be so secure. And there are things we do together and there are things we don't do together, and we don't know the future of any one of these different aspects of our relationship except for that we will always be best friends. I think that feels like the truest thing to us. But it's such a great feeling to really know someone and to feel really understood in so many different ways. I also just think he's the most talented person I've ever met. I'm like, Damn, I can't believe I get to work with him. I do feel that still. And we've been working together for so long, and there are moments where we're writing or he's like, telling a story with friends that I'm literally like, you blow my mind all the time. And there's just so much, like, mutual admiration. 

It's also so fucking hard. Yeah, I think that the truest thing is that if it were not for it being him, I would never in my life encourage it. I would never do it. And I think it makes everything so hard because, yes, you can create separation, and we've done things to create that, but also we're with each other 24 hours of the day, and it gives you all these different opportunities to have conflict in your life. It's challenging. It's also challenging to be in a creative team so young, too. It's so easy when I'm feeling insecure to be like, maybe none of it was me. What if I am not the talented part of this thing? And I think it's, like, such a false narrative because we both bring such different things to the table. But it's so easy to put all the good on the other person. So that's the challenge, and that's what makes it complex. But most of the time, it rocks. 

Are you more like your mom or your dad? 

I think that I am more like my mom. I look just like her. I don't think she loves that, but I do look just like her. And I think we have so many similar qualities. I feel it most when we do any kind of errand together where I'm just, like, our instincts are all the same. And I feel like such a closeness to her in terms of inherited traits. I have a temper. That's my dad, for sure, and so I do feel like I inherited a lot from them both. A quality that I really love, that I really hope to emulate from my mom is that there is something very quietly engaging about her. I really feel so drawn, and I feel that other people feel very drawn to that kind of presence.

When you're dead and gone, what do you want to be known for? 

Being known. One of my biggest fears in life is being misunderstood. And I also don't like when other people are misunderstood. I cannot watch a movie where someone does something kind for someone else and they don't get credit or something. They do that thing where it's like, oh, the kidney was from that guy. Yeah. No one will ever know, and he'll die a villain. I cannot stomach it. And I'm constantly doing a job that offers my heart to be misunderstood. And so when I think of this question of, like, what do I want to be known for? I think my answer is that I would really like to be known, like, to feel known. The version that is really my truest self is what is being received. 

Do you believe in God or in afterlife? And why? 

I really want to. And I do actually believe that there is something more. And I wonder if it's just because I'm scared that the party might end. I love this party. And I want it to go on forever. I have such a hard time letting anything go. I am a person that wants to be wherever I'm comfortable. I want to stay there until I get kicked out, basically. I believe in something because I really hope there's an after party. And I want to get into the good one. Yeah. Not the bad one. Yeah. I want the fun after party where everyone I love is.

When have you felt the most loved? 

I felt the most loved when Saba made this thing for me. It was his two hour playlist called Night Drive, and it was a surprise. And essentially he's, like taking me out on a date and I get into the car and he plugs in his phone and I hear his voice come out over the speaker. And he does this whole thing – like a pilot’s voiceover on a plane –  and it proceeds to be a timed drive to all the significant places in our life. But it was so beautiful. They were, like, original songs. They were kind of slam poem type things that were so specific to me. And it was the best gift ever. I know that there's no way to top it, and so, in a way, there's no expectation to top it ever. And it was the most magnificent thing I've ever experienced. I cried the entire time, and sometimes when I feel low, I will just go back and listen to it. And it's really beautiful. It's insane. I know. He really makes life a movie. I'm holding on for dear life to this boy. It's really sweet. It's unreal.

What brings you hope? 

I'm hopeful when I'm around children. I think that they are the best thing ever. And I feel sad for them that they have inherited a place that is so garbage. But I think that there's something really special in that kids can delight in anything and everything and that they really have experiences that are so unselfconscious up until a certain age. So that's when I feel the most hopeful. They're so good, optimistic, pure, even when they're mean. 

If you could tell your younger self something, what would you want to tell her? 

I would tell her to chill out. Chill out. I think I was a worrier. I think that I was just full of worry. I am still, but I would want at least her to be chill. I'm like, don't worry, we won't be chill later. But for now –  for now, chill. Just chill out. And then I would tell them to get excited. There's a lot of good things happening. And I think I would remind her that she's so fortunate. I really feel like I have hit so many jackpots in life that I did not earn myself.

So what does happy being happy look like for you?

Truly, the thing that makes me happiest is a two part-er. The first part is I am alone. My meal is ready. It's exactly what I want to eat, and it also is the perfect temperature. And my show, I have a show that I'm watching, and this episode of the show is like the exact one I want to watch. And I'm doing those things at the same time. And it's perfect. Everything is perfect.  

I want to change my answer to the previous question. That's how I want people to feel when they see my work. That's perfect to me. In front of them, everything is so perfectly timed. The food is hot and it's like a rush of warmth. I want people to feel that first part.

And then my second part is that afterwards I'm going to a party and all my friends are going to be there from different groups, and they all love each other and me. And the party is the best night of everyone's life. And because of that, I'm hosting it and it's the best, and we're all having a really good time and I don't have a stomach ache. I make myself giddy thinking about it. I'm like, that's the perfect day. How do we make it happen? 

I want you to say one thing that you love about yourself and why. 

I love how much I really delight in other people. To me, I feel the most inspired when I'm in a group. I love that the bar for me is low. Like, the bar for entrance into my heart. So low. Come one, come all. I really do like most people, and I think that I get to engage in a life that feels so full because my doors are open.